Jay Gatsby was trying to grasp the sparkling, yet elusive American Dream. To achieve this, he allegedly engaged in some shady activities. In your opinion, was the Italian philosopher/writer Machiavelli correct in his assertion that "the end justifies the means"? (in simpler terms, it doesn't matter how you get it as long as you get it) Explain.
Brianna Parlette
ReplyDeleteI think that it does or should matter in the way you achieve your goals. Gatsby spent the whole story lying about his life. He puts on a facade and tries to act like he's rich and grew up elegant and has money because he got into a good school but in actuality he got his money in a fishy way and everyone questions it. Why try to reach a goal in a way where you spend the rest of your life lying and sneaking around when you can achieve a goal in a way that you'll be proud of and feel good about it.
McKenzie Johnson,
ReplyDeleteI agree with Brianna the point of taking on a challenge is to have self worth or pride in what you are trying to accomplish and most people want to get a reaction from the people around them. Gatsby also wanted to get a reaction from the people he surrounded himself with he wanted them all to think that he had went to war and came back to the perfect american dream and money that he had earned honestly. If the point of the matter was to hide his accomplishments from the world then the matter of how he got his money would not matter but since he is trying to get Daisy and the rest of East and West Egg to accept him as "new money" I believe it does matter by the means at which he receives his money.
Haley Rasnick
ReplyDeleteI think it does matter how you get your money. Gatsby was a fake fraud. He lived a lie. He wanted people to believe he had lived some American Dream to potentially get Daisy who didn't want/need him because she was living the REAL American Dream. Everyone knew that Gatsby's money was earned is some sketchy scheme. No one had any respect for him. He ended up with no friends! No one even came to his funeral. He did all this for Daisy who was basically the reason he was killed.In the way Gatsby wanted to be perceived, the way you have money does matter.
I agree with both Brianna and McKenzie on the matter. He also said that he graduated from Oxford, and he thinks saying "old sport, old champ" makes him seem smarter and richer. Also, having over 300 dress shirts, who needs that many? Him having all of those shirts prove that he wants to show how "rich" he is to impress Daisy and to make all the rich people like him. But does it do him any good in the end with partying with all of the other "new money"? It doesn't and thats why him gaining the money in a "shady" way does matter.
ReplyDeleteKayla Hernandez
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone so far, it does matter how you achieve your goals. Gatsby tried to achieve his goal(Daisy) through new money which had no elegance or class to it. He also lied and everyone knew that he got his money through sketchy deals. All Gatsby wanted was to get Daisy back, but during the process he never truely got to know anyone, no one showed up at his funeral... Wouldn't it matter if you spent your whole life trying to get something and at the end you never actually had anyone or anything?
Shonique Edwards
ReplyDeleteI agree with Haley. The ends only justify the means when the end has a successful outcome. Gatsby was only concerned with making money to get Daisy back, not realizing that it wouldn't change a thing. Overall, Gatsby never achieved his ultimate goal. His funeral proved that he had no real friends except for Nick. And Daisy proved that she was not moved by his new status when she moved away. Gatsby never understood the fact that even if he gained riches, his background remained the same.
Kristien Salisbury
ReplyDeleteEveryone so far says that it does matter how you get where you want to be. I also agree with them, if it was real. However it isn't and the sad fact is that people don't care how you get there unless you're important. Like being president. But Gatsby just wants the look and money to get Daisy. Which obviously fails and he ends up dead. Story wise it doesn't matter he was going to die anyway. Real life it might matter. Every situation is different.
Jessica Vilberg
ReplyDeleteThe end does not always justify the means, especially for gatsby's case. He made sure to become the powerful, proper man that daisy wanted and put his desires in front of everyone, and he didn't care who he hurt. So he took the easy, unethical way to getting his riches, and that is far less satisfing than if he had earned it fairly. So his illegal acts made is millions mean almost nothing.
Stephana Reid
ReplyDeleteI believe that the end does not justify the means. Just to get back a girl that he met when he was eighteen Gatsby engages in criminal activity and creates a fake persona for himself. He tries to insert himself in the world of the wealthy upper class by saying things like “old sport” thinking that is the way that the elite acts. In all reality he just ends up being looked down upon. He has millions of dollars and luxurious cars, but no matter how much he has no body cares in the long run. Everyone that was ever around Gatsby only used him for his lavish parties, and alcohol. He was so lonely that the only people that came to his funeral were his father and Nick, not Daisy.
Shantrisse Broughton
ReplyDeleteI agree with Haley and Shonique. It really did matter how Gatsby gained his wealth because in a way it made it harder for him to gain Daisy. He spent his money on a tacky life style and everyone knew he hadn't earned it the way a respectable wealthy man, the type of man that Daisy could be with, would. His efforts were futile partly because of the way he pursued his goal.
Tay Brown
ReplyDeleteI agree with K.Salisbury that in the real world nobody really pays much attention to how you get where you got to get and all that matters for the most part is you got there....However in Gatsby's situation he put up a front to try and be someone he wasn't just to be with a woman who he could never be with because of their different social backgrounds. It is not a good idea to do something in favor of someone else,when you do things and try to achieve goals it should be for your benefit and they should take place because of hard work and being optimistic not shady deals and illegal affairs. Also technically in the end he never got what he worked his whole life for and when his life was over his "everything" was not even at his funeral.
Onecia Burton
ReplyDeleteI agree with Bri , Haley , and everyone else who says it does matter how you achieve your goals. Throughout the book, Gatsby lied about everything: his life, his means of wealth, and even where he was educated. He basically was just a product of his environment. He learned shady means and got connections with even shadier people, elongating his "fake" life. And, it's not like he even wanted to achieve his aspirations because he wanted a better life and a name for himself. In the end, it was all for Daisy, who I feel isn't even capable of loving someone else. So, by living this lie and faking everything, he lost the sight of the true American Dream and didn't even realize it.
Mickale Foard
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to lie I disagree with everyone else. The American Dream when Gatsby came back was not the same as it was before the 1920's, such as Wilson when he came back he did not have the white picket fence, model female, and other extravagant luxuries no, he had a gas station and as I recalled the recruiters didn't tell them that a gas station would be the only thing worth living for. So Gatsby had a goal and realized that he would not get Daisy owning a gas station so he made connections with the right people and used his money wisely to do what he thought could accomplish his goal but he was sadly mistaken.
Marlena Hill
ReplyDeleteI like what Kristien said because it was funny, but:
I think Machiavelli was right when he said, "the end justifies the means", because even though Gatsby was said to have been in shady business deals to get his money, that doesnt deny the fact that he probably worked extremely hard to get where he was. He wanted Daisy so badly he was going to get her in any way possible, even in shady deals. Since the only reason Daisy didnt want him in the first place, was because he was poor, he was going to make himself rich in any way possible just to get her love. Just because you made your money illegaly, doesnt mean you didnt work like hell to get it.
Tori Miller
ReplyDeleteI believe it does matter how you obtain a goal. Would the goal be actually worth it, if you didnt put forth geniune effort? Doing shady things to get a prize isnt really earning it. it may seem that way on the surface, but in actuality it isnt. There is always a valuable lesson when doing things the right way, which Gatsby didnt learn. And in the end, he never actually changed, even with all his wealth, he didnt get the prize. i feel as though if you work for a goal the right way, you will learn whether or not the prize is worth it, all the hard work is worth it. if Gatsby would have did it the right way, he would have realized that Daisy was not worth it.
Aaliyah Lelievre
ReplyDeleteI do not agree with the way Gatsby earned his fortune. He wasn't making an honest living. He was actively engaging himself in shady business deals to fit in with people that were of a higher social status. He couldn't grasp the fact that regardless of how many lavish parties he threw and how many expensive clothes he wore, he still wouldn't be good enough to stand in their social circle. I don't think Gatsby ever achieved a sense of happiness and tranquility because he was constantly trying to be someone he wasn't.
Jamaal Roberson
ReplyDeleteMachiavelli was wrong the end doesn't justify the means.Gatsby tried most of his adult life to conform to the standards of the "American Dream". Which meant his making shady deals just to achieve a higher status.Just because Gatsby had the big house, a Rolls Royce, and great big parties he would still be the bootlegger and nobody.But Gatsby was so in love with Daisy and the fast life he couldn't come to the conclusion that it all was something he isn't.If Gatsby had actually tried to earn a title in a acceptable manor maybe his end may have been more pleasing.
Keith Knudsen
ReplyDeleteI do think the ends justify the means. if you support war then you do too. the destruction and death that comes along with it will eventually lead to a total harmony. this wont happen in anyone who commented's lifetime. as for personal interests, if you are willing to do whatever you have to do to get to a place where you want to be or the world to where it needs to be i applaud you. this world is full of pansies that are afraid to do what they want because of the people above them that had already done so. some people lack the quality that pushes them, even the WORLD, into advancing. F**K the American Dream, make your own and follow THAT.
hi
ReplyDelete